Talk:The Order

"Samael" is not the name of the Order's Deity
The name is used once in Silent Hill 1 in the context of Dahlia lying about the Seal of Metatron (calling it the Mark of Samael) in order to trick Harry into believing Alessa is evil. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Order worships anything with that name. It's clear that their deity is simply called "God." Wveth (talk) 02:52, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * The "Note on the Ritual" memo from Origins says otherwise. If you're a SH1 purist who thinks Origins should not be considered canon, you may have a point, but I don't think players should have the authority to deem an entire game non-canon. Konami and Team Silent do. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  08:47, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

Q:  What is the Mark of Samael? A:  The truth is that there is no profound significance.:( Wveth (talk) 01:57, September 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh my lord, you're kidding. No, I don't think the game shouldn't be canon... but I do think it's sad they didn't even know Samael wasn't a thing, and unwittingly made it canon. I'm going to go cry now. Although, is there anything else? And do we know who wrote the memo, and why? I'm just curious. I should also mention that there is precedent for the different sects of the cult calling the gods of the opposing cults devils (http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Tome), and detractors of the cult in the general calling God by a mocking name (http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Silent_Hill%27s_Ancient_Gods:_A_Study_of_Their_Etymology_and_Evolution). Considering the name never comes up when dealing with anybody who actually worships the deity, except when she's explicitly lying to make Alessa seem evil, I think it's far more likely that this is just someone trying to trash the cult. Finally, although this isn't the be-all-end-all, here's a quote from the Silent Hill 3: Koshiki Kanzen Koryaku Guide (Official Perfect Capture Guide), published by Konami and NTT publishing:

Anything to say about this? Wveth (talk) 03:29, September 15, 2017 (UTC)


 * Not a whole lot. But you're right, it is possible that "Samael" is just a name used by someone trash-talking the god of the cult... but it's also possible it's not. As for the quote, it could just be referring to how the Seal of Metatron is said to be a piece of junk in SH3. In any case, I clarified this on the article so I hope you're satisfied. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  07:26, September 15, 2017 (UTC)

The name
The cult in Silent Hill was never named "The Order". It was just a mistake in translation. It's referred to as "that cult" and "that order".


 * Unless you have proof it was a mistranslation, don't bother. Regardless, it doesn't matter, it's the official name used by Konami in the English versions of SH3, SH4, Homecoming, and Revelation. Silent Hill is an English series based in America, and the English version of Silent Hill 3 came out before the Japanese version. Also, who *cares* if it has a name? It's REALLY trivial. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  19:44, December 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Gee, I already see what type of wiki this is. Yeah, I shouldn't bother.


 * I just asked for evidence and proof that it was a translation mistake. So? Unless you can provide some, nothing's changing. That's how wikis work. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  20:11, December 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's now what I meant. You pretty much ignored all logic. And told me to get lost. Who cares, you ask ? Anybody who wants to correct mistakes. Isn't that kinda how the wikis works ? Providing real informations ? Nevermind.


 * If you can PROVE it's an error, then we'll change it. And I never told you to "get lost". "Don't bother" isn't the same as "get lost". — Alex Shepherd   ツ  20:21, December 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * First of all, there is no need whatsoever to be offended/upset by Alex's statement. And "ignoring logic" would be like saying grass isn't green... not pointing out direct evidence supported by Konami's own actions.
 * As well, in case you know and are talking about the literal translation of whatever "The Order" is in Japanese, you have to keep in mind how the world's varying languages work. In some languages, there are zero accurate translations into another. This is just an example: I'm an experienced German student, and the correct way of asking what time it is is "Wie viel Uhr ist es?", which literally translates to "How much clock is it?", which obviously makes no sense. Many languages are like that, where the English version is entirely inaccurate to the word's true meaning. I've no idea what "The Order" really means in Japanese, but the fact still stands that Konami supports its accuracy. -- ╟_Ωzz… &#12288; t a l k 21:34, December 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that Alex's tone came off harsh, but I don't think he meant it the way it sounds. I don't believe anyone here wants you to just "get lost", or anything like that. Since "the Order" is the term used in multiple games, that's how this wiki is going to refer to the cult. Thank you for your contribution and understanding. :)  AlessaGillespie  Talk   Contributions  00:37, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

The mistranslation.
http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2014/10/31/Silent-Hill-cult-name-the-order.aspx

It's simply a mistake, the difference in the original script is trivial. Someone who clearly had no idea what he was doing mistranslated it. "That" was mistranslated as "The" in capital.

Troops24 (talk) 21:13, January 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * You have no proof it was a mistake. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  21:25, January 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * You're a lost cause, I'm not going to waste any more time on you.
 * Troops24 (talk) 10:54, January 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * Even that article says "Either the document was mistranslated by the game's translator, or the different names was an deliberate decision by Silent Hill 3's writers." So the latter is just as possible. It's the official name used in 3, 4, Homecoming and more. Calling them "the cult" forever sounds silly. — Alex Shepherd   ツ  11:25, January 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry Troops, but if you're going to make such a grand claim as to say that a title used in several games is just a mistake, you're going to definitely need proof. The series translator worked very closely with Team Silent, so while a mistake is possible, it's also possible that they told him that was what they wanted to call the cult. But to know for sure, you'd need a direct quote from either a member of Team Silent or Jeremy Blaustein confirming it was an error.  AlessaGillespie  Talk   Contributions  13:11, January 6, 2015 (UTC)