You clearly aren't active anymore so I don't think you'll see this, but I'm still going to say it. I have no f--king idea why you felt the need to spoil the plot twists of BOTH Silent Hill 1 and 3 in an article about 2, you absolute tool. Go to hell. I removed your spoiler from the article, and I really hope you haven't slipped any other spoilers into random articles on the site
I get message wall notifications. You must be new to wikis.
Every wiki has a spoiler policy on the front page, the SH Wiki one says "Note: Spoilers are to be expected and may be unmarked."
This means all spoilers are a free game and they're to be expected. There might be Homecoming spoilers on a Silent Hill 2 article, Silent Hill 1 spoilers on a Silent Hill Downpour article, etc. There is no spoiler policy that says wiki articles must not spoil plot points from other games. This applies to 99 percent of wikis.
Silent Hill 3 is nearly a 16 year old game, you know. Heather being in SH1 is 16 year old knowledge that I thought most people knew by now. When I added it, I wasn't thinking "HAHAHA, time to be a jerk!", it's just instinct and second nature to me now. I would've said sorry, but since you decided to talk to me like that, no apology for you.
At the end of the day, you did not bother to check the front page spoiler warning, so you're getting mad about something that's your own fault. You assumed there are no cross-media spoilers, when that's not the case for nearly all wikis.
Do you have any social media I can contact you through? I am watching your video on the Whang! YouTube channel and I had to create this account just to get in touch with you as I don't think there are coincidences but signs that have led me to meet you. I also believe not only that Silent Hill is a collective effort but that many other forms of media and art are as well. Please contact me asap via my email email@example.com
That's really touching, but as you can understand why, I'm hesitant. These days, I can't really tell who's sincere, or who's trying to troll/dox me. You know how people can be, especially people online.
Just so you know, his video is full of lies and misinformation about me. I'm not a pedophile, that's just pure bullshit. It's easy for people to make a bunch of accusations when you've been deplatformed. Some of it is truth tho, but I'm not entirely proud of everything I said back then either. For example, I said I would probably be one of the "top" SH fans, but I meant something more along the lines of "one of the most enthusiastic" fans. It came out wrong, and so on. I had a lot of angry and mean people flocking at me, so I said some heated stuff back. I should've kept a cooler head.
Best wishes tho and, if you really are sincere, I hope you do well in life.
Nowhere isn't the proper title of the area in SH1. It has been officially titled "Unknown" in English in official Konami sources. The save point in the localization says "Nowhere", but if we're to go by the facts, then "Unknown" should take precedence over an incorrect translation.
Also, the trivia that I added can't be sourced because it has to do with a misunderstanding within the fandom. "Unknown" denotes that nobody knows where they actually are, outside of being inside of the Otherworld. Within the fandom, the "Nowhere" title has given the impression that "Nowhere" is a part of the Otherworld that can be located and revisited.
As I said before, this is an English-language wiki, and as such, we use the official English names.
Show me where "Unknown" is used in official English sources, and proof that "Nowhere" is an error instead of an intentional artistic localization choice that happens to differ from the Japanese version.
This is the same logic on why we use "the Order" on this wiki, instead of "the cult" as there is no proof that "the Order" is an error instead of an artistic localization choice. You may not agree with the localized terminology, but it is still the official English one, and that takes precedence over all, even if it may be inaccurate to the Japanese version. (I had to refrain from saying "original Japanese version", as I don't believe in that concept, and the English version of SH1 was released first.)
The point of a wiki is not to be Japanese purists, the point of a wiki is to reiterate official information used in the official games, with the language of the wiki and game in mind. Just because you may hold the opposite opinion (if you happen to), it does not mean "Nowhere" and "the Order" are "improper". Not everything in certain languages have an accurate translation in others, which is often a reason behind differing terminology in languages. Nowhere is the term used in the official English game, known by all the fans, etc.
I also feel your interpretation of what "Unknown" and "Nowhere" mean is simply that - fan interpretation. I argue "Nowhere" could still have the impression that no one knows where they are. Regardless, we are here to use official terminology, not cater to fan preferences.
I also don't agree with having the entire Play Novel/The Arcade script on this wiki. It seems rather unnecessary, and other sites contain similar information. You should make your own site instead that does this. I'm not about to delete it or anything just yet.
I apologize if I seem brash, so please don't antagonize me. However, I need to tell you my honest feelings about these matters.
I'm not implying that we should be purists, but we should definitely favor factual information wherever possible. "The Order" I'm more inclined to defend based on the information we've been given directly from Jeremy Blaustein. Another example would be the localization's "Leonard Rhine: The Monster Lurks" versus the script's "Leonard Rhine: The Monster Lying Dormant". There would be little reason to favor that title when it is incorrect and misleading.
It's not a fan preference, but rather an observation. I did similar on the Resident Evil wiki in terms of elaborating on localizations that caused confusion among fans. It's an important point to make considering people come to wikis to learn more about each given series. I take more issue with the edit being reverted without communicating with me prior. I would have been able to explain why the note was written.
Are you implying that you would delete my transcripts? I don't find that fair at all. I've attempted to reach out to the staff on these matters and from what I have received, they seem to be OK. It's important to archive these scripts so that we have the information available. Even with seemingly reliable scripts, we have to be able to archive materials and scripts from the original sources.
I'm not taking offense, I'm just very confused as to why this is an issue and why I'm being told to make my own website instead of adding vital information to a wiki without it. I would need to have admin input on the matter or else I don't find this justified at all. Especially because it isn't outlined in the rules not to archive books and scripts.
That is still very much a Japanese guidebook intended for the Japanese version of the game. I'm not denying that Unknown is not an official name. I'm saying that Nowhere takes precedence due to being the official English version. I asked for proof that it's an error instead of an intentional artistic localization choice, and you have none, so the article name should be Nowhere. I'm sure many characters, items, locations, monsters, etc, in the series have different names in the Japanese versions, but we aren't going to change all them to the Japanese version, and I don't see why Nowhere/Unknown should be an exception.
People revert edits all the time on articles without talking to the users on their messages. Instead, the majority leave edit summaries. It's how wikis function. If there's still a dispute after, then you use message walls and talk pages.
Yes, I want to delete your transcripts. I do not see why we need to translate scripts, when other websites have done similarly:
It's literally been done before, so it really seems it's you being obsessive over the Japanese versions, and it all comes off as redundant and unnecessary.
This is an issue because you think the Japanese version of a game should matter more than the English version of the game on an English wiki. I don't think this is "vital" information at all - at this point, it's very redundant, as other websites have covered this material.
This wiki not being intended for *entire* script dumping (apart from memos) should be obvious because we don't have scripts for any other game on the wiki. I thought it would be common sense. I realize other wikis, like Resident Evil, may be different, although there has never been Japanese pandering on this wiki, so I don't see why we should start now. For similar reasons, I strongly disagree with the name "Ingrid Hannigan" being used on RE Wiki, as her name as clearly "Hunnigan" in the games, and "Hunnigan" being an error is an assumption.
These are Japanese games. Japanese materials matter. Your viewpoint on that only applies to the western titles written with their original scripts in English. It has nothing to do with preferring one over the other, but understanding that the originals scripts will always have value (whether English or not).
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying it's incorrect, not that it's an error per se. Nowhere isn't a bad translation, but when it comes down to it, it is incorrect because the original script says otherwise. Stylistic or not, the title doesn't match. The game has other errors, such as the Music Room puzzle that I've posted on my blog. It makes no sense to favor the localization when we have evidence that it's incorrect.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but regardless, there is no rule against archiving scripts and books and I have not been told to cease doing so by any admin. I'm not concerned over who did what when and where. There's always room to archive information completely (which that site hasn't done). You can assume any intentions I may or may not have, but the fact of the matter is that I am only here to add content to the wiki that is not here and has not been here. If there is a problem, I will need to hear it from somebody who has admin or bureaucratic rights. Otherwise, I have done nothing wrong and I do not need any warning.
Okay, so I don't see the harm in having the transcripts here, regardless if they've been done somewhere else. This is a wiki, and it makes sense to have them here as well.
As for the translations, I'm on the fence because Alex is right in that this is an English wiki written for the English versions of the game. If the English versions use improper translations, we're given little choice but to use them as well. If we were to use the proper translations, most probably wouldn't understand. Now, we can certainly point out the error in the pages themselves. I don't see an issue with that. But in regards to the translations, I think everyone on the admin team will have to weigh in on this.
I'm not reverting edits (for now), so please don't take it upon yourself to do so either. No deleting the transcripts until the admins finish discussing it as well, please.
It isn't always such a case as having an "original" script or idea or not. Sure, there are cases where a finished Japanese script is translated. For the Silent Hill games, we don't always know what their design process was like. A lot of writing and translation are done side-by-side, or sometimes, even the English version is done first and is then translated into Japanese. It's a very complex process. There's even a possibility that Nowhere was thought of first, and was then translated into Unknown for the Japanese version. We can't go around assuming things, such as a different term being an error.
And Silent Hill is not simply a "Japanese" game. Primarily, perhaps, but it's a game made by a very complex team of diverse people, such as editors, localizers, voice actors, etc. Much of the team worked alongside each other. They happened to choose "Nowhere" for a reason, possibly because they felt it expressed something that was difficult or impossible to be expressed in the Japanese version. Not all of the programming tools were made by the Japanese either. Kingdom Hearts 3, for example, will be produced with Unreal Engine, an engine developed by Americans. Since we don't know the entire design process of Silent Hill 1, I don't feel comfortable labeling it as an entirely Japanese game, or trying to claim what's "original" or not. Even then, a wiki's intention is not to cater to what's "original" either. Japanese materials matter and have value, sure, but it doesn't mean that they always take priority, and that we can ignore what's in the official finalized English version.
The fact that if you think an English translation differs from the Japanese version, you automatically deem it was "incorrect" and "improper" instead of simply "different" says a lot about your line of thinking. The English version can be very much correct in its own way, due to intentional artistic choices.
It's basically Japanese pandering when you try to rename official English terminology to its Japanese counterpart on an English wiki, just because you think it's an unfaithful translation.
If there's an error, or a translation difference, you are more than welcome to point it out on the article, but you can't go around denying official English terminology without absolute proof it's an error. "Unfaithful" =/= "Error" Think about that for a while and what that entails. Just because the English version may have some errors or mistakes, it doesn't mean we can disregard the English script. It is not our job to "fix" the game or attempt to "rewrite" it, our job is to reiterate it, including the official English terminology.
There are hundreds of rules and expectations not mentioned in the guidelines and Manual of Style. Just because we don't explicitly say something there, it doesn't mean you can and should do it. The guidelines and MoS are very much a work-in-progress, nor are they perfect. If you want to propose archiving scripts on the wiki, you may start a community vote and discussion about it. However, my feelings that it is unnecessary and redundant won't change.
Also, I'm still a Content Mod on this wiki, hence the "Content Moderator" tag on my user page, and I've had major roles in developing and directing the wiki.
I agree with Ari. If the game itself calls it Nowhere, then that takes precedence over the other name. I am extremely hesitant to call the term an error or incorrect translation, since we don't know what actually happened between the devs and the translator. For all we know, they used the terms interchangeably. I have no issue with mentioning in the article that it's also known as the Unknown, minus the speculation about incorrect translations and all that.
I have tried proposing several changes to the wiki through proper channels and I rarely receive any kind of response. Regardless of whether those rules are vocalized or not, there is absolutely no reason to threaten to undo work that is nothing but beneficial to the wiki (speaking solely about transcriptions here) because it's deemed overkill. My work here has already cleared up massive pieces of misinformation, such as the claim that Lisa is a Puppet Nurse, which you posted without any evidence yourself, Alex. I'm simply trying to add more facts and evidence.
I'm not going to wage a war over the title. I still strongly agree that the original scripts should always prevail if there is distinct change, as those will always be the writer's original intent, but if the same standard isn't held here, then that's how it is. I'm more bothered over the allusion that I should leave the wiki because my contributions are inappropriate when again, I have done nothing out of ill will and have only added beneficial information that has been absent on this wiki.
Please let me know about the verdict on the transcripts. Thank you.
Unfortunately, sometimes, we're just busy. I apologize. That's why we may not be around to accept proposals.
Thank you for your understanding on the Nowhere/Unknown matter.
The Puppet Nurse/Puppet Lisa thing is an error of mine, I admit. I don't have access to the novel, and these two pieces were side-by-side on the website I found them on, which is why I thought they were two images of Lisa. Lisa and the nurse look very similar.
I'm more bothered over the allusion that I should leave the wiki because my contributions are inappropriate when again, I have done nothing out of ill will and have only added beneficial information that has been absent on this wiki.
What are you talking about? No one here wants you to leave the wiki, and if you got that impression, I'm sorry. I can only speak for myself, but I don't want you to leave, just rectify your edits. If you think you're the only one who has had a similar situation like this on the wiki, you're very wrong. Just because we're discussing your edits, you don't have to leave, you know... it's common for new editors on the wiki to talk things out like this. It's completely normal.
As for the verdict on the transcripts, I vote no myself (as said before, I think they're redundant and unnecessary more than they are beneficial), but if Ari and AlessaGillespie vote yes, then I can't really do anything about it.
You suggested that I take my contributions to my own website, when they're the only contributions I have been making. To me, that suggests that I should leave. My only intention, as I've said, are to get more facts out there. This wiki doesn't even utilize the references section on most pages. I'm not saying this from a place of ignorance, but you should honestly be very glad I'm here as someone that's willing to spend my own time and money purchasing and sifting through all of the Japanese content to add a better understanding to the series. On top of that, in addition to sharing my own translations (exclusive to this wiki), I'm sharing my raw transcripts so others can sift through the content themselves if they believe I'm incorrect, which is what I meant by saying that those "other sites" don't have complete transcripts, just their own translations.
I find it strange that this must be deliberated, but again. I look forward to hearing what the admins have to say. I vote yes, if it counts.
Shame you removed that Henry Trivia point - I thought it was interesting and humourous, and that others might like to see it. I know it was not fan-made, it was made for an MTV2 show called 'Video Mods' so I presumed all permissions were secured in advance to prevent any copyright issues. I have taken some time to look around though, and, unfortunately, it is an old show so sources are a little thin on the ground. The best I could find was a Wired article mentioning licensing and an Animation Magazine article touching on the collaboration. Is this enough to prove its validity? I just wanted to run it by you first, as I don't want to be THAT guy who keeps reverting your edits! Dark Shackle (talk) 00:33, April 12, 2017 (UTC)
I did wonder about that - it was strange he had Heathers photo and seemed to be in her apartment at times! Anyway, I understand, the few details I did manage to find were vague at best. Thank you for taking the time to check it out though! Dark Shackle (talk) 00:53, April 12, 2017 (UTC)
Hi, Alex! I have a question about the endings in Silent Hill 2 - I was looking at the page about 10-Star endings, thinking I might have a go at getting that Green Hyper Spray, when I noticed among the criteria it said you had to get all endings 4(+3). I thought that was an error at first, as I am only aware of the 6 endings, but the screenshot at the top does, indeed, show endings as 4(+3). I am aware of the 4 main endings plus Dog and UFO, but what is number 3? Dark Shackle (talk) 00:12, April 3, 2017 (UTC)
Sorry about the old forum posts, I rather missed the boat there, didn't I? I thought I might be able to stoke up some new conversation but yeah, your right, I think it's pointless now. Anyway, I'm playing on my cherished old PS2 version, NOT the directors cut, which has no UFO ending or Born From A Wish. Does this affect the score in anyway, or is all endings sufficient? Also, you need to pick up a set amount of items - do memos count, or is it only inventory items? Dark Shackle (talk) 00:33, April 3, 2017 (UTC)
Okay, that's great! I do agree though, the rewards, generally, are not really worth it. I highly doubt I'll bother on the other games, but i'll have a go at this one just to see if I can pull it off, as that Green Spray does look pretty cool. Thanks for your help! Dark Shackle (talk) 00:54, April 3, 2017 (UTC)
The noted quote by Sister Margaret at the top of the page is a pretty obvious reference to the cult and what they were doing in the town. She knew who Alessa was well enough to be shocked and horrified by seeing her picture. Also, just because the site was taken down, does not make the information from it irrelevant.
It's not proof of anything. Saying "Alessa's story is all of ours" could simply mean Alessa and the residents of the town, not the cult specifically.
Also, that information is uncitable I know you love shitting on Revelation, but I think you should let it go. It's extremely nitpicky and that trivia point served its purpose when the site was up, but now it seems unnecessary. It was an honest mistake by Revelation's devs and I think that single Trivia point detracts from the seriousness and immersive atmosphere of Sister Margaret's article. We don't need to list ~all~ of the developers' screw ups and faults on the wiki. I removed the point about the site claiming "Claudia was dressed in black" too.
Alessa's story is all about the cult. She got tremendously upset when she saw her picture, and then practically screamed about Alessa's story being that of the entire town when Chris grabbed her. It's pretty obvious she's talking about the cult's hold over the town.
Wanting that trivia point up has zero to do with my feelings about SHR. It's an interesting bit of trivia dealing with the character. The site being down doesn't mean it never happened. The point is relevant to the character and the series, and is something that did actually happen at some point. I see no reason not to include it.
Then we will *agree to disagree*. I don't think it's an "obvious" reference at all. Is that the only "evidence" of this? If so, then that part should be entirely written as a possibility.
I don't think that trivia point is that interesting (agree to disagree). Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, the voice actor of Maria in the HD Collection, once called Maria "Marie", but I don't see that importance or significance or notability of that. Someone made a tiny little goof which can no longer be seen or cause further misconceptions because it's no longer available. It's nitpicking in my opinion.
Why on Earth would Sister Margaret be upset about a photo of Alessa if she didn't know a fanatical cult burned her alive? And then she starts yelling in Chris's face when he keeps pushing to know about Alessa. There was no reason for that at all unless she knew how Alessa was tied to the fire that destroyed the town. Later on, she doesn't show any surprise when she hears Gucci tell Chris that a group of religious fanatics tortured Alessa. I really don't see how anyone could have possibly taken it as anything but her knowing about the cult and what they did to Alessa.
It's not nitpicky. It's a fun trivia point. It's not making fun of Revelation, or complaining about anything. It's just pointing out a goof that happened with her name. It's not "those stupid idiots who made the website thought she was someone else! Lololol"
It's possible that Margaret knew Alessa was burned alive, but cover ups happen. Even Gucci only says "fanatical people" in front of both her and Chris, and it's possible that was all she was only told. This could be the extent that Margaret knows about the cult. She may not even know religion had anything to do with Alessa's burning, that a "cult" was responsible, that a large number of people were involved with Alessa's burning (Margaret may only think 2 or 3 people were involved), etc. Just because Margaret is silent during that scene, it doesn't prove she knew of the details.
I don't see how that trivia is "fun". Whatever tho.
The town was covered in symbols belonging to the cult. There's no way Margaret didn't know who they were, or what they stood for. Given that they have paintings of women being burned alive in public places, even if she hadn't known Alessa was being tormented by the cult beforehand, it wouldn't have taken too much thought to reach the conclusion that there was only one group who could possibly have been responsible for the burning. She says, "The story isn't hers alone, but all of ours!" Meaning the cult affected the entire town. She knew that Alessa was burned. The movie cuts to her face when Gucci tells Chris Alessa's story to show she isn't surprised by what she's hearing. Her reaction to Alessa's photo makes it clear she knows the child had something terrible done to her. The fact that she lived in a town practically ruled over by the cult makes it entirely unlikely that she wouldn't know anything about them, their hatred of Alessa, or their tendency to murder anyone they don't like.
Covered? I've only seen a few, such as the town map (which someone would need an eye for), the school (which Sister Margaret has never been proven to work at or visit). It's also possible that the painting in the church and the air siren were only created *after* the cult was dragged into the fog world. There's no proof that Sister Margaret visited the Grand Hotel and saw the burning woman painting either. This is a cult that works in secrecy, and you're trying to make it seem like they're extremely public. There's no proof that Christabella wasn't posing as a Christian at Midwich either.
I don't think it's fair to put words in people's mouths, just like you did with me during that Angela debate. She doesn't even mention the cult when she says "all of ours", it could just mean the residents of Silent Hill who were affected by the fire.
The town itself has a giant symbol of the cult's beliefs in it, formed by the roads. It's in their church, the hotel, the elementary school. The town itself was founded by this very cult, and every single building built by the founders contained that very symbol, as stated by Anna. The cult was so unafraid of showing their beliefs that they had a massive painting of a woman being burned alive prominently displayed in their church and the town's only hotel. There is simply no possible way that a resident of that town did not know about the cult and their propensity for burning people. They were not secretive in the least.
There is zero evidence that the painting and the siren only materialized in the Fog World, nor any reason to believe that. It is highly unlikely that the painting came about during Christabella's time, seeing as it depicts one of her own ancestors.
I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth. The writers went out of their way to make it clear that Sister Margaret knew what the cult had done to Alessa.
Just because there's a painting of a woman being burned in the hotel, it didn't mean people know that a cult was responsible for it. Someone could view it as a dedication for the victims of the Salem witch trials.
Just because their symbol is in some places, it doesn't mean people knew it was associated with a secret religious cult in the town. Someone could easily mistake it as a stylized and unique Christian symbol.
Why doesn't the Brahams Herald or any of the websites Chris visits reference the cult?
Why would a church need an air-raid siren (before the great fire)?
I don't see why the painting couldn't have been painted in the Fog World, or why it's unlikely just because it portrays an ancestor (they could use photos or other paintings as reference). They had 30 years of free time to paint it and build the air-raid siren. I'm sure the cult had their own activities to make their lives better such as painting, drawing, constructing architecture, building, etc.
The church has Christian crosses in front of it, suggesting the church did not always belong to the cultists, or rather, at the time of the fire, they were posing as Christians. It is also possible they seceded from Christianity.
Their garb was black. That's just how it is. All of them wear black in the present day too. It wasn't hiding anything, and I'm not sure how anyone could reach the conclusion that women wearing veils in a religious ritual must mean they're trying to hide who they are from other people. What do the males wear to hide their faces, if the veils are indeed for secrecy? The secret chamber was for their more illegal activities. That doesn't mean that everyone in the town was ignorant that the cult was still alive, or that they had committed crimes in the past. Cognitive dissonance made them believe that law and order had tempered the cult's behavior. But everyone knew they were associated with burning people. Even little kids knew it, hence "burn the witch". A cult with their symbol emblazoned on major buildings, a giant church in the middle of the town, paintings of their history hung up for everyone to see, and an entire school under their control are not secretive. People might not have realized until too late what the cult was capable of, but there is no way that the townspeople were completely ignorant of the history of their own town or the fanatical cult operating smack dab in the middle of it. For them to miss all the signs of a cult actively working in their own town, they would have to be either Dahlia-level delusional or blitheringly stupid.
Air raid sirens are used for a lot of things, like tornadoes, fires, times of war, or nuclear attacks. Take your pick.
The truth of the fire was covered up. It was actually covered up so far that a newspaper article lied about where Gucci was the night of the fire.
You can speculate about them painting in the church during their time in the Fog World all you want, but there's zero evidence that they did any such thing, and the presence of a painting in the hotel points to there already being portraits of women being burned long before the fire.
They may have seceded from Christianity sometime far in the past, but they were not Christian, and there is not a drop of evidence that they ever pretended to be so. More likely, the crosses were there because they actually were Christian in the script until the very last minute, when the writers changed them so they didn't match any one religion. It's the same with Rose having a driver's license prop that calls her Rose DeSalvo.
There's no proof the little kids of Midwich were part of the cult or knew of its existence. I'm sure that the cult was posing as Christianity and indoctrinating them in some way, hence the Biblical quote in the school and "burn this witch", but it doesn't necessarily mean that the cult was public in the school. The cult members could have posed and masqueraded as Christians in order to hide themselves. It would make sense, considering all the Christian symbolism in the film.
If the cultists never posed as Christians, then why is there a Biblical quote in the school? Why are there Christian crosses in front of their church? Why does their symbol resemble a crucifix? Why does Christabella quote the Book of Revelation? Surely, that must mean the cult values *some* parts of the Bible, and it would make so much sense if they were once Christian or masqueraded as Christians. Dahlia says "they are wolves in the skin of sheep", adding to the theme of disguise.
Again, the cult's symbol could easily be thought of as a Christian cross, and the church was likely Christian before being fully overtaken by the cult.
And there are only TWO known paintings of their history, and one of them may not have even existed before the fire, so don't act like they intended to make the entirety of their town their museum.
More likely, the crosses were there because they actually were Christian in the script until the very last minute, when the writers changed them so they didn't match any one religion.
This feels like such a cop out. Even in the original script, Christabella says "We're not Christians. We're Manichaeans." implying that the cult was never "Christian until the last minute".
Seriously? The fact that the children say word for word the exact same thing as many of the adults doesn't mean they have the same beliefs? Or that the parents decided to hide their true religion from their own children for no reason whatsoever? None of that makes a lick of sense. The children were very obviously indoctrinated. Again, they repeated word for word the exact same mantra as the adult members of the cult, aimed at the exact same person who was hated by the adults.
As I said before, later versions of the script flat-out say they're Christian. They were originall Manichaeists, and then they were changed to Christians, and then they became an unidentifiable religion with ties to several known religions. That's why the set designer said she made their symbol to have pieces of several religions, while also not tying them directly to any one faith.
Your theory involves a giant conspiracy and every single non-cultist in the town being ignorant to the point of being downright stupid. However hard you may try, you cannot argue away the presence of the cult seen all over the town. And since the townspeople knew about the cult, it stands to reason that Sister Margaret's quote and reaction to Alessa's image mean exactly what it looks like - that she knew the cult burned Alessa.
The fact that the children say word for word the exact same thing as many of the adults doesn't mean they have the same beliefs?
The only shared belief is burning witches. That's all and where the only known similarities end. Just because the kids express desire to "burn the witch", it doesn't mean that the cult's existence is made public at the school, or that the kids are taught *all* of the cult's beliefs, or that the cult was the reason why the kids said "burn the witch" to Alessa. Kids can be vicious and cruel and Alessa had witch-like powers. I doubt Christabella had a school lesson one day and said "Hi children, let me teach you the importance of... BURNING WITCHES!" along with the rest of the cult's beliefs.
As I said before, later versions of the script flat-out say they're Christian.
I've been waiting for this version of the script from you for a while. If you could scan the entire script, that would be wonderful. Or just the part where it says they're Christian for now.
That's why the set designer said she made their symbol to have pieces of several religions, while also not tying them directly to any one faith.
Your theory involves a giant conspiracy and every single non-cultist in the town being ignorant to the point of being downright stupid
Humans can be pretty stupid and ignorant at times, yes. *shrug*
And since the townspeople knew about the cult
Well, that's the thing. We're debating this and I'm arguing the opposite - that the vast majority of the townspeople didn't know about the cult.
it stands to reason that Sister Margaret's quote and reaction to Alessa's image mean exactly what it looks like - that she knew the cult burned Alessa.
As I already said, all she could've known is some "fanatical people" did it, as Gucci said.
So it's just coincidence that the children of cultists say the same things as their parents word for word? No I'm sorry, but that is completely ludicrous. This whole argument has become ludicrous. There is no grand conspiracy going on in Silent Hill. The amount of mental gymnastics going on here to explain away the cult's presence all over the town is stunning. The children talk like their parents because they've been indoctrinated with their same beliefs. The cult was out in the open, hence their symbol all over the place and paintings of burning women, and their control over prominent locations. The only thing they hid was that they were still down with murder, instead of being your run of the mill fanatics. The townspeople were not all a bunch of morons. The movie goes out of its way repeatedly to make it clear that the cult controlled the town.
I will not entertain this anymore, because it's becoming sadly clear that you won't accept any evidence at all disproving your theory. We will have to agree to disagree, and the page will stay as it is.
So it's just coincidence that the children of cultists say the same things as their parents word for word?
Could be a coincidence, could not be. Either way, just because the kids say "burn the witch", it doesn't necessarily mean that the cult's existence at the school is made public, or that the kids are being taught all of the cult's beliefs. You should at least accept this as a possibility to consider.
There is no grand conspiracy going on in Silent Hill.
That's just your opinion so quit acting like this is a fact. There's a conspiracy in the game canon, which is the inspiration for the film canon. Why would the truth of the fire be covered up, while the cult's existence not be?
hence their symbol all over the place and paintings of burning women.
As I said before, their symbol could easily be mistaken as a crucifix and there is only one known painting to exist before the fire for sure (in the Grand Hotel) which could be easily interpreted as something else.
and their control over prominent locations
Or "secret control", if you will.
The movie goes out of its way repeatedly to make it clear that the cult controlled the town.
Just because we (the audience) know, it doesn't mean that Sister Margaret or the majority of the townspeople know. I'm not debating that the cult controlled the town, of course they did. We're debating how secret or public the cult's existence is.
I will not entertain this anymore. We will have to agree to disagree, and the page will stay as it is.
Oh, great. Another "be silent, do not debate me further, and do not edit the article because I am the authority of the wiki" situation. Wonderful. I can't argue with that and you know it.
Could you at least show me the script which says the cult are Christians, and the set designer saying "she made their symbol to have pieces of several religions while also not tying them directly to any one faith"?
If this is true, they'd make noteworthy Trivia points. I asked for this in my last post, but you either forgot to answer this or ignored it.
I am so sorry I haven't been around here lately, things have been quite insane for me real recently. I wanted to set up a chat between you and I. Will you be able to join me in the SH wiki chat room at let's say, 12 noon Central time tomorrow?
If not, please just respond here and we will figure something out. I will be checking this periodically. My Steam account seems to have gone on the fritz and it won't let me add money or anything, and I rather just figure it out here before fighting with Steam again.
I recently got into the Silent Hill series. I played SH4:The Room many years ago and enjoyed it but never pursued the series. In the past few months I've kind of immersed myself in the first few games, and got a lot of mileage out of this wiki (So thanks for that!)
I saw that there were links here to an English translation of the Silent Hill 2 Novel, which I thought was a really cool bit of media to have available. I have a very, very small Youtube channel on which I sometimes do readings of creepypastas and the like. Over the past few weeks I've uploaded a sort of audiobook of the SH2 novel as translated by Lady Ducky.
If that sounds like something that you feel might help, or please wiki users, I'd be happy to provide links, if not, that's fine as well. If you do want to check it out, it can be viewed 'here. ' The audio quality clears up and evens out more from about chapter three on, I was adjusting to a new mic.
Anyway, I'll stop blathering now. I hope all is going well, and thanks again for all the work you put into this wiki!